There have been plenty of times in our 34 years of marriage when I haven't been attracted to my husband and felt that the spark was gone. But I was raised to believe that if you feel that way you'd better get to work making things better, not walk away. I feel sorry for the men who get dumped; and wives too. Marriage is wonderful, but takes lots of sacrifice and work on both sides to make it last.
I can understand VD's point on this MGTOW in some ways, but the truth of the matter is the situation presented by reader pointing out his experience.
I would have liked to have had someone for a while and maybe a kid or two, but most women are not worth a damn these days. I do wish I could do more for the ever reducing White population as well, but it's not in the cards at this point.
I am myself more of the "live and let live" persuasion so I do feel uncomfortable telling others what to do in categorical terms. Ultimately, most people marry or at least cohabit for some time and reproduce somehow.
I think the real problem with MGTOW is not that they reject marriage themselves, for whatever reason, but that they have built some sort of nihilistic philosophy around it and discourage young men from marriage, the way feminists do with young women.
From the religious point of view, if a man is a divorced Catholic is he even allowed to remarry by his church doctrine? I don't think so...
That's true about the nihilistic aspect of it. But the reality is that legally, marriage offers nothing to men in the West. And women want to cry about the income and work prospects of men, but won't willingly keep a man at home to raise kids and do some household things while they take jobs that men would have had.
I think Elspeth is dead on. Obviously, human reality is that for a society to exist for more than a few generations, a majority of its people need to reproduce. And given that we're not mere animals that can survive on instinct, we need to raise children in stability to be normal, functional people in society. Hence the time-honored (if admittedly imperfect, due to human sin) institution of marriage.
Alas, Western society, such as it is, has devolved into a self-worshipping suicide cult, so it's pretty hard for someone with a realistic mindset - that marriage, having children, and raising them in a stable home is essential to everyone's flourishing - to find someone of like mind who will actually stay faithful for life.
It's tragic, but I suppose it's a self-limiting affliction. This society will literally die off and be replaced.
Most men eventually marry, even in the USA. If you are a Christian, btw, you have no other choice as otherwise is called "living in sin".
Also, I'm not sure what would you expect legally? "The West" is a broad concept, as our laws are obviously quite different from yours. Heck, they are even different from German laws which make divorce (I presume that's what you mean) much more difficult. Still, people divorce. Imo, it's not so much about the legal aspect, but rather, about the state of the society in general.
The issue is that women over the last 40 years or so get to walk away with cash and prizes and the man gets to foot the bill. I have a couple of older cousins that never married probably because they saw their male friends in the 70s and 80s get wiped out by divorce.
You are right about the state of society, but the legal impact has been a big factor. Let us not forget that Ronald Reagan as governor of CA signed off on one of the first no-fault divorce laws.
Thank you Sanne for teaching me another capital letter combination! I agree with the advice given. Life goes always on, always. Whatever there was in the past, whatever there is in the now, it is going onwards and cannot be preseved or ''taken for granted''. It seems we are living in a blaming game (on a personal and on global level). The best thing to do is to work on oneself.
Texan, you don't get much in the way of "cash and prizes" over here, where I live. In fact, in all divorces that I personally know of, men did quite well, and women, not so much. An nearly always, it involved cheating, sometimes substance abuse.
I'm sure all these problems happened in the past, too, but when divorce was not socially acceptable, more people just did grin and bear it thingy.
Imo, it's the same with getting married. When it's socially unacceptable to live together or have a s8xual relationship outside of wedlock, most people would marry. Not so long ago, you didn't bring your mistress to a social occasion. Now we have 60+ doing the whole boy-girl friend routine.
For widows, it's different though because if the late husband left her well provided for and she gets a nice widow pension, she may not want to risk it all rushing into a new marriage.
So yes, it's legality like no fault divorce, but also morality.
There have been plenty of times in our 34 years of marriage when I haven't been attracted to my husband and felt that the spark was gone. But I was raised to believe that if you feel that way you'd better get to work making things better, not walk away. I feel sorry for the men who get dumped; and wives too. Marriage is wonderful, but takes lots of sacrifice and work on both sides to make it last.
ReplyDeleteI can understand VD's point on this MGTOW in some ways, but the truth of the matter is the situation presented by reader pointing out his experience.
ReplyDeleteI would have liked to have had someone for a while and maybe a kid or two, but most women are not worth a damn these days. I do wish I could do more for the ever reducing White population as well, but it's not in the cards at this point.
I don't think it's wise to ever advise that ALL men should pursue marriage.
ReplyDeleteI would say that in a sound, sane culture, MOST men and women should pursue marriage. But that's not what we have right now.
I am myself more of the "live and let live" persuasion so I do feel uncomfortable telling others what to do in categorical terms. Ultimately, most people marry or at least cohabit for some time and reproduce somehow.
ReplyDeleteI think the real problem with MGTOW is not that they reject marriage themselves, for whatever reason, but that they have built some sort of nihilistic philosophy around it and discourage young men from marriage, the way feminists do with young women.
From the religious point of view, if a man is a divorced Catholic is he even allowed to remarry by his church doctrine? I don't think so...
That's true about the nihilistic aspect of it. But the reality is that legally, marriage offers nothing to men in the West. And women want to cry about the income and work prospects of men, but won't willingly keep a man at home to raise kids and do some household things while they take jobs that men would have had.
DeleteI think Elspeth is dead on. Obviously, human reality is that for a society to exist for more than a few generations, a majority of its people need to reproduce. And given that we're not mere animals that can survive on instinct, we need to raise children in stability to be normal, functional people in society. Hence the time-honored (if admittedly imperfect, due to human sin) institution of marriage.
ReplyDeleteAlas, Western society, such as it is, has devolved into a self-worshipping suicide cult, so it's pretty hard for someone with a realistic mindset - that marriage, having children, and raising them in a stable home is essential to everyone's flourishing - to find someone of like mind who will actually stay faithful for life.
It's tragic, but I suppose it's a self-limiting affliction. This society will literally die off and be replaced.
Most men eventually marry, even in the USA. If you are a Christian, btw, you have no other choice as otherwise is called "living in sin".
ReplyDeleteAlso, I'm not sure what would you expect legally? "The West" is a broad concept, as our laws are obviously quite different from yours. Heck, they are even different from German laws which make divorce (I presume that's what you mean) much more difficult. Still, people divorce. Imo, it's not so much about the legal aspect, but rather, about the state of the society in general.
The issue is that women over the last 40 years or so get to walk away with cash and prizes and the man gets to foot the bill. I have a couple of older cousins that never married probably because they saw their male friends in the 70s and 80s get wiped out by divorce.
DeleteYou are right about the state of society, but the legal impact has been a big factor. Let us not forget that Ronald Reagan as governor of CA signed off on one of the first no-fault divorce laws.
Thank you Sanne for teaching me another capital letter combination! I agree with the advice given. Life goes always on, always. Whatever there was in the past, whatever there is in the now, it is going onwards and cannot be preseved or ''taken for granted''. It seems we are living in a blaming game (on a personal and on global level). The best thing to do is to work on oneself.
ReplyDeleteYou are welcome:) Yes, you are right...
ReplyDeleteTexan, you don't get much in the way of "cash and prizes" over here, where I live. In fact, in all divorces that I personally know of, men did quite well, and women, not so much. An nearly always, it involved cheating, sometimes substance abuse.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure all these problems happened in the past, too, but when divorce was not socially acceptable, more people just did grin and bear it thingy.
Imo, it's the same with getting married. When it's socially unacceptable to live together or have a s8xual relationship outside of wedlock, most people would marry. Not so long ago, you didn't bring your mistress to a social occasion. Now we have 60+ doing the whole boy-girl friend routine.
For widows, it's different though because if the late husband left her well provided for and she gets a nice widow pension, she may not want to risk it all rushing into a new marriage.
So yes, it's legality like no fault divorce, but also morality.
Not all.
ReplyDelete