Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil...
Female submission is a hot topic on the right-wing internet. Apparently, every problem in the world comes from the lack of it, and every social evil would disappear if only women started submitting again; at least, if you listen to some.
But could it be that the real problem is actually that modern women are too submissive? You'll ask me how is it even possible in the age of feminism? Well, bear with me and I'll state my case.
Have you noticed how shallow many modern women are? They are like empty vessels, without any original thought in their heads. They will blindly follow social trends and do or support whatever the MSM tell them is the latest coolest thing to do at the moment. They are always trying to fit in. I once personally witnessed a feminist lady walking into a traditional Eastern church where all the females wear headcoverings and start demanding that she's be given one, too, in order not to stick out. That made me wonder how many ardent feminists would actually support ISIS clothing guidelines if these guys ever came to power.
They lack convictions,too. Mothers who had stayed home with their own children told me it was nowadays OK to work because "everybody does it.". Society conditioning overrides even healthy biological instincts, as I've known ladies who would cry when they first had to leave their baby in the care of others but followed the advice of those who told them a 2-mos old baby should learn to fend for themselves and that a nice house in the suburbs is worth the sacrifice.
Progressives like to present themselves as rebels. Our culture romanticises the concept. Yet, the progressive ideas are the mainstream now and the women who follow a feminist script just follow the path of the least resistance. It's often not even because of any firmly held beliefs, but simply because "everybody does it". They are the very opposite of rebels and are, in fact, conformists submissive to the society demands.
I know that at this point many men would probably rub their hands and say something along the lines of women being stupid and what else could you expect of them? And yet, I don't think it's the truth. Because I have also been privileged to know many fine ladies who had very strong moral opinions and convictions, knew right from wrong, wouldn't approve of the sin in their children's lives under the guise of "love" and wouldn't follow the multitude just to fit in.
So what's the difference between the two? It probably has something to do with inborn differences between the people, but also is probably the result of socialisation, when many girls are taught to always unquestioningly follow the authority. It may have worked OK when it was their husband or father, but now the authority switched to the MSM and social media so they will follow that. Yet, when the Scriptures teach us to obey those above us, they don't tell us to be blind in our obedience and submission. When the apostles said:" We ought to obey God rather than men," they meant is a guideline for both sexes, so women aren't exempt.
The wedding liturgy our church uses dates back to the 16th century so it is hardly feminist and yet is says that the wife is to obey her husband in all the good things only. In my opinion, it's important for women to have moral convictions of their own and not only follow someone else's instructions. If your daughter is a sincere believer you won't have debates about the length of her skirts, she will dress modestly to please the Lord. She won't engage in missionary dating. She won't marry a man who doesn't accept the Scriptural roles for men and women and won't leave your grandchildren in daycare. And she will do all this out of her own free will, because of the strength of her faith and her convictions and she'll teach her children to do the same.
Many men prefer soft, pliable girls as spouses or girlfriends but is it really good to be married to someone who is so easily influenced? The truth is, a breadwinner husband spends most of his time away from home, and shouldn't be burdened with an additional task of monitoring his wife and micromanaging her daily activities, he should trust her enough to be a reasonable person and a functioning adult who is capable of fulfilling her own duties. If she needs a babysitter, how can you trust her with raising kids?
What do you all think on the matter?
I think you are right that modern women are too submissive. Or maybe submissive the wrong way and submit themselves to wrong instance. Women are submissive because it is easy and thinking with your own brain and having your own convictions is, like, hard work and you could use that time on painting your face.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion being submissive to one's husband should be intellectual choice, not something one does because one has weak character. If one is a golden retriever in a human form, her submission is worth nothing. But if you are like Elinor Dashwood and have a will of steel and yet choose to submit to your husband -imagine what ego boost that is to the man in question.
In my opinion our submission is a great gift we give to worthy men. Like respect, submission must be earned. Every day.
The problem with a person (woman) of weak character is that they always will submit to the one who talked to them last. It could be her husband, her mother, her girl-friend or something she read online. You can't really trust such a person to make good choices. It's true that they follow the way of the least resistance just because it's easy.
ReplyDeleteI'm coming to the conclusion, btw, that despite all the talk, our society isn't really female-friendly and hasn't been for quite a time. Instead of encouraging women to develop their strengths and fulfill their biological imperative, it pushes them into being quasi males and using their sexuality to achieve status. The result isn't women getting stronger, but vice versa. In general, liberalism probably makes both sexes weaker since the idea behind it is that nobody should be held to any sort of standard.
The idea is that she will be soft and pliable for her particular man, but stand strong in the face of every other onslaught against her emotions and constitution.
ReplyDeleteMy experience is that a strong man finds a woman who never offers an independent thought or who is cloying subservient annoying. It's as you said so well:
The truth is, a breadwinner husband spends most of his time away from home, and shouldn't be burdened with an additional task of monitoring his wife and micromanaging her daily activities, he should trust her enough to be a reasonable person and a functioning adult who is capable of fulfilling her own duties.
The idea that a wife needs to be carefully monitored and kept on a short lease doesn't really work in reality and I've known some fairly chauvinistic men in my lifetime (not mine!) who didn't subscribe to that notion.
It is a fear-based philosophy. Strong men aren't inclined to be afraid of their wives.
The way I see it, it's a complex problem. Western Euro people nowadays are socialised to be nice above all else, at the expense at being good, right, moral etc. To be "nice" is the greatest social virtue while being "mean" is the worst sin. Most women are probably more submissive than men by nature (since they are followers by design) but this above is not a female problem only, as many men will keep their mouths shut as not to offend.
ReplyDeleteThe 2nd trend which again, affects both sexes but women more than men, is the lack of any enforceable standards of behaviour. While many boys aren't taught proper masculine behaviour any more, it's even worse with girls since the last 100 years or so, the motto in the West is "women can do whatever they wish". How many husbands suffer in silence because they don't dare express their concerns to their wives?
And the last but not least, the concept of marriage in popular culture has been reduced to a romantic encounter. Marriage is an institution based on contractual obligations between two parties and before they marry, they both should have clear ideas what to expect of each other and hold each other to it.
For instance, in a traditional marriage, the husband has the right to expect decent housekeeping standards while the wife has the right to expect financial support. But even if they both work, they should have a general plan on whose money goes where and who does what at home.
There are some who will teach that while the husband has the right to expect standards to be adhered to, the wife should just grin and bear it when he isn't keeping up his part of the bargain. I disagree but it's probably a topic for another discussion.
While many boys aren't taught proper masculine behaviour any more, it's even worse with girls since the last 100 years or so, the motto in the West is "women can do whatever they wish". How many husbands suffer in silence because they don't dare express their concerns to their wives?
ReplyDeleteThis is quite true, although I had no idea how pervasive it was until several years ago because it's a phenomena that is so far removed from the scope of my own experience. I can imagine it now, but it was shocking to me when I first encountered it.
There are some who will teach that while the husband has the right to expect standards to be adhered to, the wife should just grin and bear it when he isn't keeping up his part of the bargain. I disagree but it's probably a topic for another discussion.
Perhaps it is a topic for another discussion, but it is related and frequently taught. Although, I think it's a well-meaning (if misguided) attempt to steer wives away from the tendency to nagging, contentious communication.
Sanne
ReplyDeleteThis is an excellent post!
What I find interesting is that we wrote on the same subject, on the same day, but very differently.
https://uponhopeblog.blogspot.com/2019/09/do-women-have-agency.html
I see where you are coming from when you ask 'are women too submissive'. Women seek consensus, they want to be liked and they want to fit in. Men can disagree, even violently and still work together. In my experience that is not true for women.
Many men do not see women as submissive, because women are disconnected from their nature. That it is hard for them to find their place in life. They have been told, endlessly, that they are just like men. It is hard to reject that thing that you have been told so often. So they rebel against men and compete against men. Because they have been told what women have never been told before, that men are not an authority.
That is not natural, normal or true!
However for submission, there must be someone to submit too. There must be a leader, someone who accepts both the good and the bad aspects of leadership. Who accepts responsibility. The system we live under has and continues to undermine the ability to lead.
It all leads to misery, as that please's neither men or women.
Mark Moncrieff
Elspeth, I think there is danger involved in online coaching, both for those who give advice and those who receive it. On the internet, one can create a persona which has little to do with reality. People will embellish things even in real life, so how much can you trust someone giving you details of his or her situation online? Any advice in such a situation can only be of a very general nature. Internet is a great means of connecting like-minded people but it's probably better to follow the guidance of your local church authorities. Since they know the parties in real life, they are in a better position to determine whether it's the wife who is a nagging *itch, or the husband is a jerk, or probably both of them:)
ReplyDeleteThanks, Mark, I read your post and liked it, too! Great minds often think alike:) I would say that women in general have agency but less than men. Yet, in a traditional society, they are expected to behave and act in a certain manner and will be held accountable for it. Western society stopped doing it around the 19th century when the old punishments for things like adultery were abolished and women started being viewed purely as victims of men. So while the liberals hate Victorians, they still hold to the Victorian dogma that if a woman did something wrong, it's because a man put her to it.
ReplyDeleteWomen tend to take disagreements as personal insults, I have witnessed it many times, online and irl. Heck, I have this tendency myself:) Hell hath no fury and all that...
Also, women are quick to perceive that the real authority is vested in the state and the state doesn't currently hold the husbands in high regard so they just follow the trend, I guess. Liberal society encourages it, because liberalism is rebellion against God, hierarchy and natural order.
Any advice in such a situation can only be of a very general nature. Internet is a great means of connecting like-minded people but it's probably better to follow the guidance of your local church authorities. Since they know the parties in real life, they are in a better position to determine whether it's the wife who is a nagging *itch, or the husband is a jerk, or probably both of them:)
ReplyDeleteYou'll hear no objection on anything you've offered in response to me, and I speak from hard learned experience. General principles only should be the name of the game if anyone is going to go there at all. I am not promoting that kind of counsel, only offering some, not all of the people who offer it the benefit of the doubt.
Unfortunately, the automatic assumption that all men are put upon and beaten down by ball busting wives threatening divorce runs nearly unchallenged throughout out conservative/red pill Internet.
It isn't true, but it leads to the kind of thing you presented in your post.
I know, but I won't name any names:) (P.S. didn't mean you or any of my commenters in particular at all.)
ReplyDelete